BJGN04-06-18 - Rob Heinsoo - 13th Age: Glorantha

Friday, April 6th

The Rev interviews 13th Age creator Rob Heinsoo about the his latest project, 13th Age Glorantha!

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Ladies and gentlemen geeks of all ages you are now entering Vijay chase the nation. Well yes. Welcome to Vijay saves you may see NIM the reverend way to go. There's no one across from me because I am flying solo for this episode. If you guys wanna go ahead read just you can do so send us an email BJ geek nation at Or you can find us on all social media just by searching for BJ she's geek nation. Or find us on BJP may change. Dot com now why am I flying solo on this one well BJ and Chris are down add games storm in Portland and I will shortly be heading out to GP Seattle ABC news this weekend hey come say highly playing a bunch of magic. Now today is a very very special day because we have on one of my favorite. RPG meisters of all time mr. rob Haines so he's talking about his new latest project available from chaos CM. And also available on poker impressed this is called. Thirteenth age Gloria doc and without any further ado I give you mr. rob Haines so the last time they you were actually into our studios first offered in different studios. Anyway is to take some of us through a thirteenth age adventure. That a lot of people still ask for so we definitely thrown out there and I believe that they gave it to Belgrade to sort out there. Yes so hopefully they'll be having it out there but a lot of people really did love the fact that. You could do because they're gruesome fun stuff and we're able to hold her own against these the diabolical led GM that is yourself I. I have to say I think you guys got the the full experience because. Could. But my home group also the thing I do start really. Sean wonderful campaigns than ten years later they give you crap about not tradition here it is so yeah you guys got that Ira I actually remember you were in some very dramatic. Near faceoff and a guard and worsening villains have been revealed and and then Elvin rocket ship may almighty no there there that yeah. Send the character who somehow floated above the ground and that was related to his desire to escape from the bounds of the dragon empire through the power of would you have a wonderful memory when it comes to those things I love this. Thirteen pages one of my favorite game systems of all times and I've told people a lot of the times that it is. Essentially. AAA dungeons and dragons has been off by it. In terms. You're more in fort for the story you want people to create their stories in a lot of like there's not so many skill checks is not a whole lot of number crunching when it comes down to it you wanna be able to essentially BS the GM. In sued getting the bonuses in the roles and all of the fun things that go on with that. I I I do sort of believe that way. You just established with the rorschach test of how do you approach the game which is BS in the GM and yet he thinks and that's fine could do it doesn't add. The it it's a combination of com but we call F twenty your. In terms and especially about as you say. That the players and the GM are. Creating the story together with an awful lot of things you know making your one unique thing tells the game mass to what you want to campaign to be about being in the same sense that the the extra special thing about a fantasy character you know establishes the plot lines that are going to develop over the course of the ten books series. And in a ten level series of thirteen page everybody's one unique things should like reach full blossom. And that's the kind of stuff that. We as game masters. Want to be surprised. Them by what's players add to the story because it's going to be better. Than what we just would create. And so we try to make a game that would encourage that. And now you guys are back in this is really interesting because. I am not familiar with this new setting but I've looked at the book in it is fantastic we've got thirteen age Gloria. Shortened to thirteen GTG four come a lot of those people out there and tell me a little bit about Gloria though because before I looked at this book which I'd also probably over and over again the book is beautiful. I did not know anything about the history of glory and but it does. Have a pretty stored history. I believe can they just had the fiftieth anniversary. Almost creation and the thing about that is that what that means that the great Stafford with writing stories about the world. Before he started doing games. Simultaneously. It the first game about content within 97 before noon pump it was. A word game basically called weight bear and read the moon and it turns out that the white here is essentially. Eight superhero human named Hari coup kills his god into rate sits white fur coat over my shoulders and the red moon is their red got us to. Erupts in the world of time in brings chaos into a world that was nearly destroyed by the first God's war so. It's a mythical world. Craig. Craig Stafford. I think and one way to explain it is that. As a linguistics exercise. He had the language is first he was a scholar of languages. And game he ancient languages bad points. And he created new living lines. And he sort of hold he started telling the stories. Partially. Two X. Because he needed homes for his language grueling yet okay whereas Greg Stafford is not wasn't a linguists he was the Mittal attest he read every single. First. How to say it every single original text that was available. And created a world which has. I would describe it as mythic depth it's essentially a bronze age world the guards are real. Com and the people who worship to god everyone has their story about how they're pantheon. And the is are the good guys yet how how really the world depends on man to hold together. And that includes the trolls who come bubbling up out of hell where it was dark and elected to the surface for what they're gonna eat everybody. Beat you to be you know the sun worshippers who are. That's called stick in the ass I got app after app after patriarch goal -- our goal steer wheeled being. You know the emperor sign is there a guy to the barbarians the storm barbarians who killed that dude. And your entire world into darkness and and then had to go back down into hell took pole sign out and rescue rescue time. Now I just had a few words about the kind of mythology but that's the kind of big picture story that Iraq that tells all the time and when you're playing campaign. You are heroes. Our. Either recreating. Or living up to the standards of the gods they worship with these these characters. A horror. In aid is most most heroes they are above and beyond the normal here is what your playing especially. Which has been noted in thirteen page is that you are. Like there are the normal heroes but you are and Echelon above that because you can actually. Sent to places that most cannot. Yes. I mean there is over there's room for games where. You know on good plot line is you wake up naked. On the possessions a pistol from use sitting artist betting on which when if you come out alive when they released scorpions into the room because there are different and you kill those scorpions debit card with a stinger and now you've got a stinger yes yes. You know there's a root for those games thirty NATO not I can't yeah. And thirty days Barack is especially as you say not that game because. We. We're sort of phrasing the V characters and it asthma. People who can hero quest right away in here are requesting is. Returning to the god time. Going back to the world that the gods will be contacted and recreating their actions so they you stepped into the story. And imagine in our world like we all of the stories about Alexander degrade the ever gonna hear a quest Alexander the Great. He would find yourself leading a charge of the companions across the river to attack Darius. And you know how proud I am and so all of a sudden. What happens is that the game master can go ahead and create. Mythic stories in instead of having to say oh they happen to someone else. It's like no you the player character parents have to do this or else the world falls apart are these considered essentially like oh like what I I trial would be. Like I heroes trial army hero quest yes but is it. Sometimes okay sometimes other times it's like you want power mother at times it's the world has fallen apart. Other times it's that chaos hasn't faded that math. And twisted it so that now things are going really wrong and if someone doesn't do something the world's you know. I am basically you're gobble died for instance and when you say chaos this is that just meet him all encompassing. Disorder in the world chaos as with a capital C street which is a lot of these things because what you have in this as opposed icons for thirteen page for thirteen G it is the ruins in ruins are what shape this world and yet it still dug a little bit about that. Hints being so descriptive here it's like I haven't really told you about all the different teams that have been published about Graf in the past civilians so there are we have all yet there are oh wow OK and I'll I'll get to that now. Their rooms. Our. The building blocks of reality on the things like air. The elements are the air Earth's water darkness darkness with the first. And then there's things like movement and its opposite status and illusion and truth. And death and life and that they're all very emblematic shapes and in thirteen page in thirteenth age we oriented that's major story telling. Opposite characters too around the icon it's larger than life non player characters. In a weird way. The larger than life characters than. To typical want to do oftentimes and that pain. PCs to nice and so. The rooms instead show what you work the fundamental ways here character is linked to reality. And you might be a warship for the god of death. That's who mocked and so you have to restaurants you have staff room with just like across I'll select a sword because the first sword and truth. Now that is sort of grim truth and death of that that. Connected the mag god but there it is but because Europe thirteen page character also you could choose one person around. And you might just decide I am also though the weird ass who mocked de who's also connected to. Broad and and now you know when you set up your won anything to also backed that up and now what happens this at the beginning every day and you will be attuned to one ran. 50% chance this one of your normal rooms 50% chance of surrender for a while and the the when you want to you narrate. Something. About the power of that round during that day. And that's just do you making up part the story and it's just like part of the character tracked the character pops right. Player contributions yet to story it's not on the game master to go ahead and make it up it's on the player and that's what she pushed a lot women especially thirteen page. Including random encounters don't happen. Montage as happened explain what happens and then the next PC needs to explain the solution for that and that's one of the greatest things ever because it's. And as a player you're not being told what happens and like we've just already said. You're creating the world around you ended the game master has fun too because first of all they have to go you we need to give a little bit of advice I'll have sounds right that things like this. And then you make a player role for complications from them and because in thirteen page we said hey if it's excited die a five always give you complication and a six doesn't yeah a lot of people were scared of using their diet and their fives they just are like are gonna use the five because. You mean you're you're an old game that I don't know how I think and it's like well now it's supposed to be better for you but. We just set it up this way in this in the into Iraq that. We find out if there's a complication after you've told the story which is they've marvelous storytelling trick because everybody is always having. You know all you told a great story. About how things just went right for us because the power of them the power of the moon which is our enemy. Actually transformed. There's a transformation that occurred here utterly unexpected or somebody achieved a moment of enlightenment that. Means they're not really going to be our enemy anymore now look at the possible complications B became master thinking I've got a lot of them yeah. It's. Doing my business. You know so there's that it is it's a more surprising story that way and the rooms. We when you look at the book on mama I'm afraid you're reappearance here will not be able to one of the things we did. There have been many. Other role playing games and sent Graf rune quest is the the big daddy yes although one that really really went ahead and changed Jonathan tweet might co designer and I really affected both of us in our lives. And then there's been several versions of request there's also her request which was a more of a narrative storytelling game on. Virtually their problem laws. And and then also bunch of other and request time back as well now one of the things that we wanted to do with. Their tickets go to opera. We you really. Just took advantage of difference. We put them whenever we use the word death and it's appropriate and not every time could that will be done. But we we put to death and neck in front of it. Hammering home no this is that when we're talking about death we mean the first sort idea of a time when you look at the book you're gonna find the rooms everywhere. All the monsters are. In chapter organized by their rooms there most likely associated with the owner because those actually fit. The kind of encounters that should be. Chaos monster stick to each other make center as monsters which I. Either as the terrible course demons of the black course troop. Or when my goodness patrols Tahoe on patrols and their giant bugs are all darkness monsters and there are so doctor spirits he can find them together. And so it was so and and a good way to like put things together they would fight together as well as you know orientation. And we organize teach geography chapter that way. On the characters are all he'd have used their rooms in the places that are appropriate so I think the thing is we kind of want. We know that an awful lot of. People coming to became. Will be like you they'd they won't know Courant. On so what we try to do. Was just as the I content thirteen page are the important thing you know who they are written with the go ahead and makeup which want to about them because at least two. In this game we're sort of saying. Know what their rooms are. Know the names of the main guides and no they chaos has erupted and is going to destroy the world if you don't do something absolute utter Matt. If you wanna make stuff up. Please do you know go ahead it's like with. Don't one of the fun things funny things vocal on thing is there's so much material. That's been written about it. Com in the past that some people are intimidated because they don't want to contradict things. That has been written but that's not our attitude in all our attitude and the you know in our head our attitude is. You should be contradicting things because that way your campaign will be unique to and we yeah expect somebody's. You know we expect somebody is one unique thing right out of the gate to take something that's can on a clean known Angela Rafa and just now not that. The trick is you know if you think you know if ended its its. With thirteen G it's one of those games that you didn't want to just say. This is a replacement for thirteen page it coincides with the books you should absolutely 100% have the thirteenth stage core book as well. And even in the book it says so we're kind of half two in May need no way to weasel you need to find a rule somewhere yes. Forget Lago yet hello. Yeah we we did write a 464. Page you can call are 400 to secure our kids Morsi force at the numbers it's like 464 for season six yeah right there yeah against it for many it's forcing the sixth. It's and it's divide by sixteen annual he'll get the number. So. We set out to you on kick starter we told people originally cleared 280 page book. And as a ballot that could not quell an NFL and then people complained and like man. I don't think honored navy is enough you know especially for the money repaid wearily he actually you repeat so we bump that up to 196. Who did it at a government assisted more pages the other and then we went ahead and did force before and IA. I mean I can explain. We need. I'll both Jonathan line local Roth and as we word. Too lenient we knew that we wanted to give people enough. To. Really have an arm a campaign that would last a little while my hand on and not make it says that people immediately had to be. I'm hoping for supplements. Yeah and this book has. It has all the information it's got a group the rules of the icons about character creation. But it also has campaigns are straight in the book. Make you guys had over 12100 backers helped create this book. And if it is chock full of lore of information for campaigns free to get started and to continue on your journeys I think there are five official adventures and it. Rough well one of them is a bit odd that you could call at five. On. Wii there are also on two different here requests on one of those requests was actually created by a packer essentially. Who he we have a pitch in math level and he pitched two relieved to myth about mocked in the sort of life and we realized well this man is worth having a hero quest that we wrote one loud and so you know this. If you add the hero quest and an adventurous together yet there's a lot of playable material spread out the different pieces. We're thirteenth PH players whether or not they want to experiment with Clark. There are half think I believe if you count them. In a separate experiences. There're sort of twelve different characters who cares and because one of the under the worker can definitely be playing two different ways. Are welcome a few of them are variants like the rebel it's an interest in broke it's like you take a row can you say no and no he doesn't do sneak attack. He has an attack that. Does more damage the first time he attacks and character in battles with always moving around but he has the freedom ability so that the other rebel is not a huge new class. It's more of I don't know three or four page fearing it okay whereas the trickster who mocked idea of priestess held mother. Some great names like legitimate they they draw you in and you wanna learn more about the characters in the character creation just based on the name. Well this and you know. That trickster is a character class that hasn't. Been in depth and I don't think it's been Diane. 20/20 games before. To go romp in trickster is. A combination. Of somewhat of an illusionist southerly downplayed that a little bit and they hit the illusion is one of the browns did we really played up disorder. On because they're the scapegoat for the character who. In the all in the math and are involved they are the ones starting the trouble like oh he he now a grandfather mortal did you find. This this thing and it looks like a weapon and all I'm trying to give it to mocked him so he'll kill you in that accident you know what. Yes and I can't I actually may have to have met backwards a little bit but you know or malls steely and it's dealing media stealing death is a perfect example. Know eventually he asked to make up for it by helping get the sub back but I guess in our game the trickster is a bad luck magnate OK so bad but bad luck for the any means. Bellic Vietnamese increases and the Bellic players have. Frequently it's the trickster instead. And OK so they have you know abilities slop like dumb dumb and our names and this climate. And faster clock is there on their topic is attacks and in other there. The and what win in their group so we find is that you know little Jonathan riled peak. Talking up how deadly the adventure today it's going to be in people who Michael Michael we can do the tricks is not here. OK okay. When he's so Clinton no it's not yeah. That's right. One of the things I love about this book and you can people can pick it up right now on PDF. And it should be and print in Maine. Do you know for sure I want inmate will be email later in Albion Maine to a yes it's off to the printer for the printers in China oh donors so IA no I mean I totally know it'll be it. His success that I know it'll be at. He should be attend kind are right now will look how much earlier report on Kumble B I don't now I've seen I've seen you can pick up the PDF right now though and DR work in this. Is fantastic and get you into that. That bronze age like you said mythology because you're looking at these almost just beautiful tapestries. Of of the of the ruins of the gods and all of those that deal with it it it really brings you into it in even like looking at. The heat map of the world and it shows the underworld in the over world and all of these different things it's not. You're not on a different version of earth you're on something else entirely with Gloria that. The world is slow composed of the bones of dead guides the weapons do you use her. And their problems while the good. I guess I agree and the think. As the book points out. The and partly that's what in their reading rooms fits so well because it's not pay your throwing some power around you because that's. You're just talking about some potential that's already in the world and coming out yeah and blossoming. And the the care of really of the characters are supposed to be you know as part of this story line of confidence that. That god new time at the gods nearly just to create the world they nearly destroy it by fighting each other. They make time which is where mortal skip to go ahead and rule instead of the guys in the God's will be set in their ways. But mortal skim more and more and more more powerful and that's where we're at right now we're the morals are just about to start shaking the foundations camp and this is we are absolutely in a time of crisis when this is half getting because I mean why wouldn't you need this is why you need adventures and adventurers who are. Are are able to go and do these amazing here requests because there are. You know forces that were there are very like is that all part reality. We have a lot of fun writing that the nickel romp a lot of times when you have a world because here's an example of how scheme designed coast. When people are right in role playing games they very frequently you want to the find sort of this is what these are like this is let me describe what this place is like. And that hasn't really important value. One of the things though that the we are sort of trying to do with this particular came. Is those views. Are perfectly useful and a loyalist ethic is published for an quest the stuffing it full for here request actually useful people should read it. And think about it as much as they want. And then with a thirteen taste off the campaign. The question is how is it on fire. What does that fit what does everything going wrong what does it look like when net oh win. You know half the half the children born that year actually turned out to be demons coach and and the city you know and part of the cities now crater. Because that's where that the motivation for heroes comes in so one of the maps. Their way obviously to my take panelists I'm giving the strongest possible example yet you want editor at that there are still somewhat together. But we have a in the in the chapter of the people campaign we're talking about why how have things gone wrong. That's not a C anymore that's sort of a community yeah and the map we we've we to provide one map with all the plates name script off. Like oh wow the very back in the appendix you visit the map appears announced normal and that appears with every place name scrubbed off it's kind of like you can say. Whenever you mind about what this is now do you you know where you are now you see those four giant drank sensible there's. Still probably there athlete that. But if they've woken up and well and devastate a whole other section absolutely and dragging can visit our pretty big in this as well. Dragons or. Well the I hear think we asked if there's one of the big things we did not cover art fascinating. Read in Kearney mean. Drank in. They're not really people what they're sort of humanoid call Rankin Newt's yeah yeah oh yeah did very easily yes we can staff stats for them. The next time we do a book for the temptation quanta which I hope happens and we're talking with Katherine about it guys will include some drank in Nantes there's sort of mystic non humans who are. In touch with a dragon room which is not him and ran. OK although once upon a time in this in the same place the game sat dragon pass. The dragons. Did teach humans how to. Speaker Connick in humans started being born with. Fort Thompson thinks this is all the history of the world if it now they say what happened this. The dregs got pissed off and killed and but he yet and so the entire place was like became. Unpopulated except Penang humans for 200 or 400 years. You know and then humans back could stay Oakland for punishment Garrett recovered. That's I I I love this thing because this is what you stated with like the maps into the weight that you want people to. Use these source books and this one this gigantic book with all the information with that you that you want people to. To embrace this world to embrace Gloria but do it no way that they will find it fun. Yes it's did. New players don't have to know everything. But the more they learn they're gonna be able to refine things. I don't and they are as you mentioned gets a lot of different styles of part of popular over the years and one of the things that I wanted to do security gates will bronco was to use some art. From all the different styles wildcat which sort of shows like you know you can have some good looks a little bit like. Hindu tapestry as you said all what that guy looks more like he says biking or in this assess a helpless at the foot plus north's weapons and there's different ways of phrasing that guides and of the heroes and depending on what your what you want for your campaign use use whichever views he liked it's it's that fun part of it doesn't necessarily take any meet those there is that it that is out there aside from gore on that like d.s are. You're not gonna be like oh this is like Lord of the Rings because it something else entirely and that are definitely shows that right. Before we go I do have one question ducks. Now I was very confused about this because it as I was reading I just noticed that something talking about. And. A humanoid dec character and then one of the pieces of art was aid. Duck much like power the deck in armor. Are these. Play third reasonably certain he could say however that to act I would I would imagine so by. So. Ducks are controversial. And Iran. I ended. Jeff Richard is running there at the request side of things has it was raining here request before. And I remember early on we are talking about thirteen page Courant. He now. He would I if because he asked me and he was sort of like open to hey you know what you wanted to do and I said that I was going to embrace. The the feathered ancestors separate that because. It obviously any time you there's a part of the world detail like you don't have to use it to somebody on the kick starter. Page mentioned. I hate ducks they are in my game they're replaced by Catholics. Men thought that's a little odd but perfectly acceptable if it on the that the that the added I. Deduct I mean when you if you get the book and read detect pages you'll find that we. Offer at least five maybe six different possible interpretations of why the ducks are. Small flightless human alliance. We know that there heavily connected to the death Graham interesting. The occupying an area of it is the worst. Swamp in the world populated by collecting and a command through with or balloon dad and it seems really likely to the ducks are preventing me and dead from swarming now. So there actually use it as very serious matter that Malloy won't ever okay that's one of the things this. They this standard duck adventurer is the worst super of who mocked god of death. And have names like you grim peak you know up and OK oh and yeah I'm in they in the computer game king a dragon passed fit David Dunham did. Do you gentlemen friends. Robin I had written you know at at some point duct. Champion visits you and says you're disrespecting my kin in the march compared to IE you go wow all fight your champion and ducks therefore get played. Blue it's another rorschach test how the people want to right now. You know Jonathan Francis cannot stand. Couldn't exactly act like. He he always plays characters like cobalt and people with my little voices but Jonathan cannot stand the idea that these ducks are speaking. With the threat that the Donald Duck voices gaffe. Now I kind of understand it I'd never really think about that myself there must be some people who just can't tolerate that at all but the fact. Jonathan therefore wrote some really interesting things about how the ducks duped might talk. Hand. Sorely under curse. On our they only are they good aren't they guardians. Of the world that the you know did something worse would happen our date comic relief because the fact is this that you know you can't have an utterly grim world. With. A little bit of a government building in a comedy element. End. A lot of a lot of math tab that and in a world where you know you are mall via said the trickster god and in the ducks may have a place that nothing is. That's why the important thing for me as I used them played straight it's like they're not. They're not. Their only funny because other people make fun of them. Yet or not when you may be a mistake. Down the road occasionally yes you know idea but not all tuxedo but yeah this that there's an awful lot of this normal ducks put. Now. And you get one of the funny part about it is for the senate to leave ducks are hugely popular in Europe. Really yeah I think France. And to. And England and other key by you know there are much more they were much more I think okay whereas other American team principal the last of a little bit less than a touchdown via so I'd you know for instance that person who Reiner government who wrote the math. The guidebook it's like you know narrated I think by queen bee that he Mike Dee. If if the death lured you to do Drake Florida you don't forget 8888 always they have all this stuff for like they've got their own all this mean. It's set up about like deductions like well that is not a world are going to put it. Yup so are you play one I may very well now that you've explained it to me a lot better than now I you know the first impression on that is definitely of like a set of Howard the duck. Whom I am well I have based all of mine on that that terribly these movies so. That's called every day I met this I've never seen the eighties movie dog so I moved higher end that I and then let you know when people talk -- the Duncan kind of like I remember reading the comic book but the comic book was a lot better absolutely can but yes so. Rob again I love the fact that this is this is a gigantic book anybody who wants to delve into the glory at the lore. And play with this is its 100%. Beautiful. It is 100% something that you need to pick up to get into this. And people can get it on to negate them. Being pressed C can get it at the chaos team website mom can definitely is for sale their arm I think right now they're selling the PDF. And tell green has now started selling the PDF in a per copy pre order as well Exel lob there's also another book he can. B calcium really pulled up the stops and paid for into the kick starter in chaos campaign for really good art. I'm done Michael O'Brien and Jeff Richard. Got a lot of good artists into the project including people who had a really where to go off before who are really fantastic. On and writing your orders were really good but there was another another book the grant a source book is also publish as part of the kick starter and that is Warren of no system just the month and mythology hand wringing and panned out to I'm not send you a copy. Rhode Island read this wow I don't know if I was to get our hands literally all around event. So you know it has the note DT build up pictures of all the dots in the pantheon. And Mike mythic map so what they got time looks like those people and in the history of the red man. It's a much a much deeper dive it isn't actually. And as I said it's not what you need to know to play for two page from the rocket but if you go ahead and read it you deathly gonna find things if you like well that's what an axe character. It that's not the. Yeah some again thank you so much rob for his prison time if people want to bother you on social media we're committees that. Asked. RO BE HE nine in paso and that's Twitter so it looks like rob points to but it isn't. At that end it at that have been at pains so arrive into the green though where pain you know listening and I'm group. Called me last night it's very appropriate with do you energy and Iran pain sewed up Blogspot dot com. Thank you so much Robin I hope everyone had a good time listening to him explain what thirteen page glory of the really is. This is one of those ones that if you love lore if you lows some of the craziest that you can now. Play with the an RPG's or maybe doesn't want to play eight grim duck title lot of red. Go ahead and pick this up you can check it out on the chaos zero site or build green grass and that is for the PDF. Sue that's hopefully by gen con you'll build to pick up that. Point version I know I'm definitely going to be doing that. And guys. Thank you so much sinister emails he Dickey stationed at Buy this and all that social media just by searchers repeat species each nation. Until next time guys stay nerdy.