BJGN07-12-18 - Special Ops - 2001 - Ditko

Thursday, July 12th

It's Special Ops with Mark Rahner, Rev & Chris! Mark answers a listener question about writing; they discuss the meaning behind 2001: A Space Odyssey and then we hear Kubrick's own words about the ending; and Mark discusses the life of legendary comic creator Steve Ditko with Eric Reynolds from Fantagraphics!

Transcript - Not for consumer use. Robot overlords only. Will not be accurate.

Your inner geek wants to come out and play. But where. To golf joined Vernon Wells the ultimate globe where you when your fellow geeks can hang out play games and just nerd out 24/7. Whether you love RPD's video games or are just a major fan of size flying culture Vernon Wells says something for everyone let your geek flags fly at Vernon whilst. Sign up today and see for yourself BMW duck club that's BMW doc. Club house. Ladies and gentlemen geeks of all ages you are now entering Vijay chase PHT. Nation special ops. There you are. Have a seat and will commence with here special op briefing for the week I'm your host mark kronor in this week we'll talk about the late great Steve Dickau. And the fiftieth anniversary of 2001 a space Odyssey and a very special revelation this week but first let me introduce. The other NATO members to mine America but at 10 o'clock mid Germany here there and in Fuego hollow. And France. Who will be Chris walker today I plan on alienating you both for no good reason to hate usually associated gas but no the politics talk this week because we've got lots and lots of talk about rev how can people into. If they wish to do so 19802243353. You can send us voicemails or text messages that way email be digging nation and you know dot com. You can find us on all social media just by searching for BJ Shea easy geek nation. Or find all of that past episodes and more. BJ geek nation dot com. Well said and somebody actually did utilize one of those red you have a listener question force this week I do in this came from day. Ginger. Named Jack Pakistan now yes absolutely and he says that if she did has via the tweets which is just add be digging nation and that. He was the one who originally sent use the questions about writing which use so generously responded I think the first one it looked like it. Fifteen minutes in the monologue will keep it shorter this time yes he's he said he has done more research and her writing things for answering my question on the previous spots. But I have a question. How important do you think these three act structure is a guide recommendations to read up on it. Well ginger ninja you need to know it. Whether you want to what you wind up staking way that you need to learn it before you depart from writers like John Millie is who you know from Conan. If he's trying to get higher on the food chain than I am he says it's BS. And I say when you're John Millie as you can do whatever the hell and I want to three axis standard for screenplay is not so much for comics. I always think that the axiom for anything as you can depart from the format but if you do a better be good. And then if he is that good becomes an example of a structure that people point to itself. It's like a book called save the cat. Such agreement and parading all killed it to you right here I'm huh. Did you did you hear collateral debt in the second one mound you know get strengthen and now I hate that book I I hated I think it's tacky. But. If you want to understand the structure of things that you watch things that are successful. You've got to read to god damn thing there's have to know him before you can depart from me there's an interesting thing. If you doozy Pixar. Way which is. One thing is at the norm until this thing happens and in this thing happens in this thing happened to that kind of an interest in structure. As read a little bit about that and also. I know I think either Japanese I think it's Japanese does the ten act structure aren't for some things and it's a lot more intense on that sort always over compensating. But there's definitely different ways to go beyond just the three act this is the one that everybody knows because the so prevalent in all cinema released. Right and screenplays. Our craft an aunt and an art as well as a business and you need to understand how are professionals in the business just go about it. Because if you hand somebody something that is in a format that is don't look professional for them or if they start reading and they're like. What the hell is this team you'd better be either just some off the scale genius. Or have aside job doing who we're now your are your own now junior mean good stuff up. Remember us when you're famous next. Let's talk about me for a little bit the color is coming apart at the seams but we're not gonna talk about politics today as I said instead you can read my latest column on Twitter and BR DT daily site. I didn't write this headline. Hit you might sound a little on the nose to you it is. Trumped trump snowflakes get what they deserve a snapshot of I spent my whole first career in newspapers having to explain headlines that I didn't write to people. It never changes you and your crew freelance. It's a way to look at the trump people getting called out ashamed and shunned recently like you saw are standards and they had thrown out of a restaurant somebody called. Steve Bannon a piece of trash in a bookstore this weekend. Stephen Miller threw away eighty bucks were the sushi which merely made me cry yeah when the bartender came on in the fingers of a three pieces then are so this column is just a helpful way of looking at what's happening to these people which is. They're toxins and they're finally getting rejected by the anybody's society. One other thing before we got to move on with actual content. The dynamite is putting up the Green Hornet omnibus trade paperback volume two this week it's in stores probably right now is your listen to this. And and it is the first book I ever wrote for dynamited the Green Hornet annual number two. Insert poop joke here. First ever entered its full length Daniel good long story. I don't get so much as a dime if you buy and I got paid my money miserly paid great years ago only Hannity in my script but. A proud of the story don't we get a chance to read it seeking out. It's. If you if you knew that dug the green hornet's Alter ego is a newspaper publisher by the name of Britt Reid and site hauled off this is right after I left the newspaper. And I decided to have its publisher Alter ego. Have a problem with lay offs and down so I can get out paper and boy does that make for some exciting superhero action Green Hornet omnibus. Volume to go get a steal it whatever okay here ago. Now 2001 a space Odyssey comes up from time to time because it's one of my favorite movies in fifty years after it came out in theaters. People are still talking about it it is a brilliant. Piece work to change cinema forever. Christopher Nolan the director. Nolan presented a preemptive and at the Cannes Film Festival this year. It is disorder been doing genius in mystery to yield something new each time you watch it. But now like Jurassic Park sequel Uga you got to pay attention. Your awards your attention. And there requires you to fill in some blanks on your own to the movies got very little dialogue. And that next to a silent film it's for both split four regular movie people say almost nothing. It's the dialogue. It's got a crack it's intentionally subdued the performances are intentionally kind of stiff. People have joked over the years that no. The robot on the ship is the most emotional person and the cast in terms they may be all right Scott. Astounding scientific and technological accuracy from the simple fact of having no sounds in the vacuum of space suit. Depicting. Space shuttle. Pretty close to what would become the real thing later in of course. In 1968 people were dropping acid and tripping added especially via the stargate Seymour he. Also at the time it came out. People were demanding refunds for their movie tickets they didn't know what the hell they had just heard Hillary who now now. The revelation will come up with a second but very and a couple minutes but I wanna fill in some gaps for you first. And give you little context. So if you saw the movie and didn't understand it or if you've never gotten to yet. I'm here to help it's a long movie it's more than two and a half hours long and I think if you just stop an average human being on the street. And said hey could you explain 2001 space I was yeah. Draft did throw a drink on you they would aggressively hydrate you cut. And so. Out just as an exercise for myself without looking and operate thing last night I just got down what I thought the plot was and the tool you can tell me if you think I'm mom. On target and threaten usually have a little blue Danube. Cool I can definitely do I don't know QQ to your flannel ducky for Lou can you OK we just spoke Martin Luther stereo. At the dawn of man. Early eight people hanging out Killen game getting in fights doing orderly people do. A mysterious black monolith appears and it changes them somehow maybe gives them a little bump forward and evolution it's unclear. Begin using weapons to kill. Skip forward. In the second most jarring jumps cut which is technically called a match cut. In movie history after the one and Lawrence of Arabia where he blows out the map we go from a ball and flung in the air. To a space station we are in the far flung future of 2000 want kitty. Recount back that they your radio already you know jarring cuts now on there's a reason I'm making these movies. An important man is traveling a space shuttle to space station that sector he would Floyd and he's on his way to the moon from there. Where something secret has happened the music you're hearing here is a stroke since he can you. He picked up different things and every viewing this movie. I don't know the two you guys feel the same way but it became really obvious to me I got to experts saw the movie when I was maybe twelve years old and when I was close to something adult I understood that. The senior with the space shuttle doing this slow. Synchronized nation. That ultimately leads to the penetration into the speech he's yeah go ahead by an AA. The building building crescendo this music. It was. So satisfying released that as a child. I was not equipped to understand it and perhaps the two UX precludes this Tito most special when you make it abundantly clear right now they're I hear it. Now on the moos on the moon on the on the moon on the moon. And excavation. Has uncovered. A mysterious black monolith just like the one that appeared at the dawn of man and it clearly wasn't made by people human people. As this important man doctor Floyd. And his people approached the monolith and the sun rises from over the horizon. This monolith emits a piercing. Ear splitting noise. And then we get another jump cut but just a short time eighteen months in the future now where would the spaceship that's following the signal to the monolith. That the monolith descending. And it's sending it toward Jupiter. On board the ship we got a couple astronauts who got Franken days of it's strokes can have something to think the couple dude the only important that Franken Dave. And lived ships sentient computer system represented by just big red I that's Hal 9000. Franken David Howell. The rescue crews in hibernation and they're gonna be awakened when they arrive at their destination still would mean are you still with me I'll. Things out McCain's senate pick in this all unfolds at a pretty grandiose pace. You may swap a word for grandiose if you find the movie boring. The emphasis is on the visuals on the music. And on this long journey. How the computer makes a mistake which is something he's never ever supposed to do this is serious so the astronauts plot to deactivate Howell. Turn off essentially kill him. Helm 1000 does not want this now so in an early version of the Internet of things how makes something. Of the ship. Kill frank one of the astronauts. And then it tries to strand as the other one day of outside the ship. Now this is a real nail biter sequence. Dave is in a pod. Without a helmet outside the ship. And he manages to get back in by holding his breath and going through an emergency door. And I did you not find yourself in the audience holding your breath too when this happened to me I did I yeah yes yes it's a magnificent scene in theory about how they filmed it. It's just fascinating bit of new music with the airlock on the open it though. Vacuum poles and inside and in how they had a film that essentially upside down with him on rubber base tends to hop singer it's me it's amazing it's amazing so Dave gets in. He's all by himself. He wooed kills talent a weirdly emotional scene where Al's mind keeps degenerating and and down. Here's Rick it's weird they've arrived here at Jupiter where there's a huge version of the black monolith floating in space. He enters it into space pod goes through this harrowing psychedelic trip it's a kind of portal. There's important. It's the stargate. At the end of this trip Dave abruptly finds himself in his pod in an ornate room. That kind of looks like Trump's apartment. Hold it really does bring an iron used to acute it's not because young trumpet the time was still redlining black tenants would this clan father in New York City if through a series. Of kind of impression mystic transitions we see Dave eight. He looks over your shoulder seasonal version of himself and then he's that version where would that version. He gets old and then made maybe he's about to die and at that moment of his death. A model with appears rank in front of his bed just like the one that appeared three other points in the movie to a well two of approximately. So cut to another jump cut Earth's orbit we see in space the giant floating fetus. The end holy crap that's it that's the end it just cuts off why there's nothing else branch. Toast as you may have noticed that he saw the movie. There's just a tiny bit of ambiguity with this and this is before you can get online on your phone no less and look up. Whatever you want and even if you could there weren't any answers it was art. When you could have your theories you can even read Arthur C Clarke's novel and the sequels. And the making no books whichever I read everything in my hands on over the years when we were still gonna have questions. So. I read interview with Kubrick he doesn't like explaining his art a over the short story that are all came from from our C Clarke of the sentinel. It's interesting. But it's not gonna be fully satisfy. I have interviewed care delayed the down the guy who plays Dave the astronaut. Didn't get a lot of answers I've interviewed Douglas trumbull who did the special effects for the book Pete you have been very thorough well I'm going to hear. And so that brings this up. To the present just a few days ago. This piece of tape surfaces. Now red explain what you got now and this is really interesting. Now and it's. Them the footage is from a 1980 documentary from the filmmaker. That I'm going to ruin his name June Ichi yeah owl. And add director is making a behind the scenes look at that reported paranormal occurrences that happen during the making of the shining. The document he was never released. Which is why this footage has not been seen until now but at one point this director called coupe break. And the directors voices heard. Over the phone explaining his interpretation. Of 2000 one's polarizing ending which means that it would be. I mean the ending yeah yeah I enter all this time decades of silence and speculation. And we get this are you ready are you ready Newark. As people. Throughout the whole truth especially fair struggled a superb serve and historic. It's probable who's perfect warm now. But before or one who gets rewarded through our luck soon. You know the old man who. You know lying on the bed do been in those very voters. I hope. Forward. Could do. Good arms. Her closet disarm our our. This is a fascinating to me and at the same counselors because over the years. Between 1968 and 1980 and you've got the film scholars reading my graphs on this stuff. And then this port Japanese guy in his broken English. Can barely spit the question out. And he gets the mother lode but just throws it out there. I have heard her record an out because when you. When you yeah. Saying. The idea is they found her book were prepared to dramatize. Well one built across Thailand. The idea what the purpose very. He is. Taken him by. Caught right entities are creatures are pure and anarchy and intelligent with her FaceBook long. There. Today put her can't work. I have heard it described as a human threw me. Starting Hamburg then had her whole life I have. I thought yeah in that room. Nothing has not perfect time. Because they happen yeah that doesn't Obama yeah. State terrorism through what is. Very an accurate. Replica. Cart. Architecture you'll deliberately are. An accurate because. You know what we're protesting and they had come my hero and something that we might think we're pretty burned down. We weren't quite sure that we got yeah. Quite sure that would do it hurt. Yeah without a world. Write your cool what we think is there a role. You know environment. Anyway when they get put them. I had happened and company. There. Our whole culprit in the world yeah it's kind of partner kind of Cooper he current events are due per. You know. Transform. Yeah today. You know I have come Herbert Hoover. We have we have only got what happened when you're back we'll. Yeah. Yeah I have a great deal of quality yeah. That was rumored trying to figure out. Oh OK that's it all right thanks by. A couple of guys dogging are glad we can clear that up while. There we haven't after all these well after five decades. There's your answer okay when we come back from the break will remember the great Steve Dickau and talked to Eric Reynolds from San graphics books. Welcome back to special ops marker on here with the reverend en Fuego and Chris walker diet Steve Dickau. Has passed away at the age of ninety apparently no family. Very solitary guy in mostly solitary. We primarily known him from doing the first Spiderman work and from developing Doctor Strange and no yes men. I wasn't even smoking weed last night and I was yeah. I was coming back and reading the wall Doctor Strange and the U the early so I miss them in the archive additions. He makes drugs. Redundant. But I do you guys have any recollection of these comics and of his style. Not necessarily. Lay used recollection but this issue coming up in the recent memories as a most. Because of the Doctor Strange movie. Has been going back and looking at just his psychedelic art work. I'm going around with all of that and I would absolutely wanna go back and read. A lot of his work just to see that you have to wonder what kind of a mind comes up with this and the Doctor Strange movie did a great job of capturing some of his visuals it. The union are wrong about that and I have to admit that I had to look up some Stevie it did go to make sure that a had something to talk about today and I realize that. Look at that a computer put on the table leg it's one of those names it's like I'm culturally aware of him. But I didn't I I couldn't just put my finger on something say oh yeah I read that LA area and that lawyer that. What I realized was that as I'm going back through every reading all of my roms based it. He actually did a fair chunk towards the end of the of this series numbers 15975. And the fourth annual so I'm I'm getting to him. I was gonna mock Q but you brought up something that I have no expertise in I've never read rom 10 like. The whole wrong rom I need your real women talk of them are on because I know talked for like fifteen seconds. I'll probably the very important title for me as a kid I you know I did goes wrong oh about did goes around CI. That's the problem I don't remember it and I haven't gotten that deep into my re reading yet so all I have got to look forward to let's start here yes his style. It's immediately recognizable to have nobody like him it's kind of prehistoric looking and looking at and 2018 but it's also deceptively simple and very stylized he's got. Kind of a rubbery. Really kinetic looked to his figures. And now how this translates to Spiderman is easy to picture but how it translates to rom disk space made the putts home movies it was literally a rigid carrier USA and and and even the day two characters surrounding Iran by that point in the series other space nights. I am really looking forward to right now as a matter of fact because I had forgotten. That that was that was Steve because we're in the in the later issues and gain in almost to the end of the series I would ask if I could borrow your roms but those are comics and I have to take from under the tag fit after a touchdown pass deep Dickau was a very in enigmatic figure you didn't see Dickau at a table at comic cons he was. Somewhere I believe on the spectrum between eccentric and crazy other people we're gonna find out differed he didn't do interviews to do I guess he was very curt. With people and it is correspondents say you can see letters from him to the fans and and other people and he route I found a letter from him for sale on eBay and can he talks like. It's like a line mideast essentially consists of no. But I I think you could sum up his interactions of people buried by that word now. Best known for Spiderman and doctor strangest stuff is just mind blowing and very imaginative and I don't know I've never heard that he was a big Hosni Jenny user at all. But there's so little known about his personal life that he could have been anything and we would not what we do know is that he was longtime believer. And I'm rans objective missed philosophy and which is weird to me is somebody with a background in philosophy because that stuff is just so obviously pseudo intellectual and pure riled just diaper gravy than anybody who isn't Paul Ryan. Generally Al grows in their twenties I did to this day I'm still apologizing to the girlfriend that I tried to make read the fountain head what we start talking up what's. Anyway after his prime. At marvel and is mainstream comic here's. He focused his efforts on a black and white objective is hero called mr. Payne and whatever funding is in a comic with mr. ray was not that. I just want you to hear what Steve did cause voice sounded like very briefly. Here's a couple seconds in talking about mr. de. Mr. hay is based on higher rents theory of justice and Aristotle wall identity is definition meant and his view of art. Aristotle said that artists philosophically more important than history history tells on men did act our shows comment could and should act. Our creates a model an ideal man as a measuring standard without a measuring standard nothing can be identified or judged. But everything and measured disease and sickness as are measured by a healthy organ or body. All measurement requires an appropriate standards. With that one can measure down to Adams up to the stars and that changes in the character of a man. Aristotle defined man as a rational animal. Rationality is a potential and has to be actually lives by choice and the right thinking method of logic applied to reason. The standard of management for all is a rational logical who were killed. Definitely shy to a party don't care either I felt myself. His are going to further and further sleepers is the talk but it's one of the rare chances you get to hear what Steve did coast sound like even if you couldn't give a crap about objective this. Philosophy now we're gonna talk on the phone 21 of the few people on earth who ever met and spoke with Disco that may be an exaggeration but he just wasn't accessible from the we're gonna talk to my friend Eric Reynolds who's one of the authority figures at Fannie graphics books and Fannie graphics puts out a number of Steve decode titles what do you got Eric. How well we have a cigarette volume hard cover series called the Ditka archives that collect clothes is best non. PC port basically. From the gold and silver age artillery vertical niche or so where it stops Charles. I'm mother on the publishers are bad air you Google stories and things like and yeah yeah exactly and we have proposed a big coffee table book that. Unfortunately currently out of stock split I'm sure will be bring it back in the current student cult stranger and stranger which is kind of closest thing to. Coffee table books slash biography that that because really bad. I was up late last night reading old archive additions of yearly Spiderman comics and of nearly strange tales and Doctor Strange. And they were so beautiful. You talk a little bit about. Well at first thought what's the easiest way for people who find the books that you just described. Well probably all the usual usual channels that armed. People order books from these days. Guys so rather I'd rather not name specific company. That's like Greg EUR one of the few people on earth who can say you actually met Steve Dickau he was did just as famous for being a recluse as it was for his arts. Yes that's Q although I think reckless is a little bit overstated. I think he would actually fairly accessible to the people ready trust it. And light and I don't think he had a wide circle. Friendship her queen ship bit. You know bit bet you whether or not bullet viewer and editor that. Imports. Is that it committee like you know he was reachable. But it's true that you know I'm I'm. 46 and I don't know too many people my age or ever met him personally. So that was pretty pretty cool. I was watching her re watched the 2007 Jonathan Ross documentary on BBC. Ross flies all the way to New York with Neil game and no less. Phones and for outside his building gets told that at floppy essentially. Goes up and knocks on the door anyway and can't get an on camera interview but you went with somebody that you work with. For business and Dickau spoke to you tell me about that. Well Lou Lou but the the biggest part was that we weren't really trying to get anything out of and I think that's why you know he was willing to talk to us. Unlike unlike rock and game and you know who very much on the agenda to get him on camera. Sure this peace moves. You know scout cookie entertainment. And of course he you know rejected that he would be rejected every opportunity he had. Say anything on the record I'm. But anyways. Yeah I've met him in 2002. And it's you know long enough now that I wish I had a recording of the congress to secure the great conversation. Maine at each other which are very kind of started it saved from memory but it's the and that's basically Gary brought. Who's the co-founder and president telegraphed her and myself were in New York City. Four book expo America what is the big. Biggest kind of trade convention in but publishing industry and there was sometime around may of 2000 until. And the easiest way I can place it in time is that is that the Spiderman movie the very first one that Tim Rainey directed. Had just come out and I remember specifically being in New York City that week. And Spiderman what's. So ubiquitous. In and around New York City that week that I remember specifically thinking my god I think this movies you know going to be huge. And I think about played already open in authority over the already known that it was you know breaking box office records and it's kind of an interesting week a day if that you know at that point there is you know they're the future first superhero so that's silly you know. Nobody can predict it exactly where it was gonna go right anchored just severely bombed and you know killed the whole momentum of that. That type of film making in. So so there was sat and basically. We had some time to kill in one afternoon in and scary grassroots friends Olympic coach just said hey you wanna go wanted to return to a visitor to. Steve Ditka and of course I said. Absolutely I would like thirty years old at the time and you know and would have never ever thought that I would get a chance to do that so. I can't remember actually Gary called a minute banter we just showed up on a doorstep but we went period studio on fifth which is. As bad Jonathan Ross document are playing out you know not too difficult to acquire nuclear you know it's your mind to it. And to the question of getting him the kind actually come out hockey that we went. He opened the door. I specifically remember remember that he would and very dirty white shirt and kind of disheveled hair and it looked like he hadn't changed his clothes and several days. Or watch them and you're very much very much an old bachelor. But he came to the door after door agreed that's relatively warmly with one. Analogic hobby he refused an Eric Berry if you humor you do invited into the studio CD stands doorway the whole time. So he's he kind of want out through the doorway and kind of closed it behind him. And then just proceeded to talk to us sir I Jerry very distraught about the the other day and we both say it was somewhere probably around an hour and a half two hours good lord. And he just stood in the hallway and populist and he earth friendly. Can Gary were on. More on relatively good terms even if they'd had you know their run ins and the climactic there was a mutual respect. There that that they were both kind of mature enough to. To get past saying you know specific disagreement played out over the years. Found good Gary is by no mean in the touched by no means an object of this and because. By no means the terms swimming socialists that Gary has yet they got along. And I just really was just going along for the ride I just basically stood Barrett my recollection is that I didn't say ten words. But you sit there and listen to these guys. Kind of spar verbally sparred for this entire time and I wish again I remember all the details of the conversation bit. The one thing it specifically do you remember is conversation turned to the Spiderman movie okay and and and then basically I remember. There was talk about Stanley and it was just completely. Obvious how much Ditka resented Stanley at the time. Because of the movie. Stand was taken big deal victory laps in the media left and right. And would loving every minute of it you know there I don't think there's ever. The TV interview that Stanley ever turn down now and now here chauffeurs supermarket openings this. Yeah exactly and and it was completely. Apparent how. Match Ditka resented that and just to. Had a fundamental lack of respect for the guy. Trauma as. You know either just. A glory hound at worst it's not an outrage you know. Criminal added that we were hurt the best. And sound. But the interesting thing to me about it misses are aware remember Gary and end the conversation kind of got a little bit contentious and ultimately led she did coach telling us you know that. He was tired and need to get back to work and kind of sent our way and that was. Talking about money and yet really I haven't known to many hardcore libertarians are objectives that who. Haven't really come to that. To that world view without a little bit of self interest in terms of protecting their own well spray. And it can't seem utterly unconcerned about money despite the fact that he was. Clearly living in exceptionally modest life. You have not always puzzled me he never really part took of good peca zillions of dollars Spider-Man Brian. Rate and that seemed so to me that seems so kind of at odds with. You know you're kind of John Gault style. Brandy and character right right. Site aren't aren't so that it's really stood out to me he would have much more concerned with with. Kind of stared this injustice and yet they get sent to that would skewed a little bit because it was so black and why it. But. But he definitely seemed to be kind of coming from that kind of more. Of of the moral perspective than it than just a helped interested. You know point of view because he was a co creator Spiderman and wanted to get cut costs. I remember watching the the Stanley footage in this documentary and stand. Eagerly. Admits that Dick Cohen co creator. At the same time he kind of walks it back and says well I did come up with the idea and I think the person who comes up with the idea. Is the creator but still he's welcome to say he's the co creator. Yeah right and you know and I mean honestly I've I'm sure they didn't have a hand in the current creation as Spiderman I think it. I think it's the kind of backhanded. Diminishment. Decode contribution. You know in a way that that that stand. Who painted it over the decades and you know I think in the last twenty years of but we've got to lions. There was just. A general groundswell of support her. You know hurt for guys like Kirby and it code name and acknowledging their contributions. In a way that sort of forced to hand and then sort of made him kind of meet him halfway a little bit more. Yeah if you will but if you look at you know public statements made throughout the seventies and eighties until I heard. Project Herbie the original British art really you know didn't understand would gladly. Take credit at their expense at every opportunity and I think the decade that just just had a Q what to expect darn good pundit go just like it did Jack Kirby to the point where Stanley would not. It's a human being. Sure and by I keep thinking though. I couldn't really side with either one of them because. They both seem to represent extremes like you you couldn't expect standard behave like Dickau whereas stand with such an attention shot Hoggan and a showman. Pretty much nobody acts like stand period. You said you didn't think that it we in our FaceBook exchange he said you didn't think Dickau was nuts. He always struck me as as being just out of his mind could you sort characterize him as more eccentric. Yeah I think that's fair I mean you read his work and then you definitely can come away from you know especially a lot of his work over the last thirty. Or more years most of the personal. Object of mr. and stuff the mystery who work in the shop a block away it starts. There's an idea just to that stuff try to I think there's desire you know it to sort of get the message across their conduct extensive liked. Any kind of patient storytelling. You know talk kind of ham fisted in now way that reads like kind of ranch in Reeves of of a crazy person. Well it's not fine if you're drilling and go pick up a fund comes equipped to hurried because today is not your table. Now that's good that's right so I think you know I can understand that impression but I but it you know from my might relatively small sample size the the experience with the guy. Key you know he did not he actually didn't even come across as terribly eccentric I think it hurts and you're really just barely. Seem like a fairly under guys in. You know I had to step would have attempted humor really. Yeah apple which is Honeycutt that like you do not come across the work. At all Ono or in any we hear about him did he do he told how did this manifest itself essentially humor. A billion artist Gary had a very caustic wit. And I just remember them that yes he could kind of give it as and as well he can take it and that they can't move enjoyed you know that kind of sparring. In a way that was kind of playful and Scion and not. You know I'm not at all like that support come across this so militant and so yeah unwavering. In. I did I did not have that impression amendment person that you speaking to actually. Like a comic working like he'd wanted to tell you the way the world lesson. In person. In this one conversation American having with Gary he seemed to very much appreciate the repartee and appreciate the give and take and appreciate the fact that. You know here with someone who actually could intellectually engage him on the steps. In a way that I'm guessing you know a lot of people that he came in contact with were just. Spiderman to accept. You couldn't. I have a feeling that if I had met him he would've gotten impatient with me and told me to get lost because I read a philosophy degree and I think that objective is and it's his juvenile garbage can we would if we would have come to blows. But this is interesting in say from you because. I always had the impression of Steve Dickau as the kind of guy you would never wanna get stuck talking to a cocktail party but you wouldn't have to worry about it because he wouldn't accept your invitation of the party movement. Derek well I think that's great and I think that yes Stephen I think Trent that's not an unfair. But it's OK and I had a period Jason although I think he more like you know unlike. You wanna get stuck talking to him I think he. Doesn't wanna get stuck talking to anybody else. Yes seriously Eric Reynolds I would tell people one more time here what did go books you have that they can find profound graphics books. The simplest thing to look up is the debt coach archives from ten graphics their six Bahrain to each have individual titles within. Our actual title polling number on the first one called strange suspense and I think that's the best place to start. And you know you can't go wrong I mean he was a truly great cartoonists surely one of the the most. Won't hurt you know I mean yeah. Expressive. Cartoonists had ever worked in mainstream comic he knows his comics really reflected. Him yeah both. It broke his political world view that also just I think it is like. Is in here you know his inner world before he probably became a whole object and it was just the what kind of quiet a bit every bit as much as Peter Parker oil and you know you can't help but read those early spider and stories and seeing them in contrast with. With what was really invoke at the time in any and so today with where everything's all about you know muscles bombast and and then you know you can't help every those early is better at it and not just kind of empathize and what Peter Parker the character in a way that I think it's 100% to code just knowing not Stanley. Oh there was nobody like Steve did a Reynolds thank you so much for sharing what the memory of a lifetime that must be for you thanks a lot we'll talk you again right on my pleasure. All right well. I'm exhausted and I wanna go home and read more Steve did go comics and I want every one of those volumes from demographics. Our listeners thanks we'll see you next time I have no idea what we're doing next week I'm marker honor its special ops. Your inner geek wants to come out and play. But where to go join Vernon Wells the ultimate globe where you when your fellow geeks can hang out play games and just nerd out 24/7. Whether you love RPG ease of video games or are just a major fan of size flying culture Vernon Wells says something for every one let your geek flags fly at Vernon Wells. Sign up today and see for yourself BMW dark club that's BMW dot clubs.